Suggestions on how to explain quixtar is a bad idea?

my friend recently joined up with quixtar and he invited me to a meeting. i found what they said to be misleading. i know that most of the people that join do not do well (.163% as of 2005),but some do. i dont want him stay with this,and most of his other friends agree its no good. i have tried bringing it up to him once and he repeated the things that i heard them telling everyone at the meeting. i am not good with words and know that there are others who have gathered much more information than i have. so if possible, i would like to see if someone could help me with providing a response. here is what he tells me when i bring up certain points:

"quixtar is just the supplier"
"every business is a pyramid"
"if it was a bad idea, it wouldnt have lasted this long"
"amway is misunderstood, like mary-kay"
"all the people who say this plan is bad are people who did it and didnt put forth an effort"
"you buy this stuff anyway"
"they dont charge to go to meetings"
Additional Details
please send a detailed response for the questions, and if possible, put some factual data in there, such as what a true pyramid scheme is. thank you so much in advance!

I agree that Quixtar done wrong is a bad idea. Done correctly, it can be a very good thing! First of all, Quixtar is NOT just the supplier. It provides the products, the ordering mechanisms (e-commerce site and call center), the customer support, the product marketing materials, the sales and brand training, and more, including the bonus checks earned by Quixtar Independent Business Owners.

"You buy this stuff anyway" is a line used by those who do not know how to sell products. They are only interested in sponsoring others into the business. A new IBO makes money through retail selling, and will only earn income from sponsoring efforts when a larger group has been developed (again, no income earned unless products are being sold!).

Every business is like a pyramid is interesting, and I kind of agree. Of course, the term "Pyramid" refers to an illegal business in FTC's rule book. We're not a pyramid, for many reasons, including the fact that we buy back product, don't pay for recruitment, and require no inventory loading. But the line about other businesses being "pyramids" refers to the fact that there's somebody at the top (CEO) and others below that (VPs) and then more (Directors) and more (Managers) and more (Staff) ... which looks an awful lot like a pyramid when charted out. With our business, you can be bigger and more successful than the person who brought you in. It would be difficult to chart us and make it look like a pyramid.

This business is not for everyone. Even some people who put in a great effort don't succeed, perhaps because they're not natural sales people or haven't taken the time to get proper training. And if they're just trying to recruit, they will not have quick success.

This business is right for some people, who want to work at it in their spare time, focus on understanding the products, then sell them, then get people interested in an opportunity of their own. If it's about getting rich in the next 12 months, I'd recommend that he move along. You can make a lot of money in this business, but if you want to earn good income for a long time, you will want to build this business the right way, and that means a balance of selling and sponsoring others that will result in OK income today and bright prospects for the future.

For disclosure's sake, I am Manager of Quixtar's PR group.

quixtar IS amway! They switched the name because of the bad rep they obtained! My cousin and I found this out at one of the big meetings and a couple of the diamond, higher, guys quickly came over and informed us never to call it that again. I seen my friends dump money month after month buying that overpriced junk. It is nearly impossible to make money. The only way is to stick with it for years. No seriously like make it a life long career before you start seeing the results that they talk about in those ignorant and exaggerated meetings. and well thats just ***'in stupid.

here's the factual data ... which you can easily compute or find for yourself:

1. add up the total sales commissions possible at all levels through Quixtar as a percentage of sales. [or Amway -- same owners]

Compare this to Wal-Mart's published financial statements, again as a percentage of sales.

you'll find that Wal-Mart's entire markup, including all costs, taxes, and profits is smaller than only the sales commissions promised by Quixtar -- which excludes the taxes due on those profits.

thus, any product that isn't exclusive to Quixtar should be cheaper at Wal-Mart, esp. if you catch it on sale.

2. for their exclusive products, go to your public library and read back issues of Consumer Reports. What you're looking for is their comparisons of those product types by brand and source. CR carefully judges such issues as product quality and cost per use -- which are two of the things Quixtar/Amway
claim they are especially good at.

Last time I checked this, CR didn't agree.

this covers all Quixtar products. When they're cheaper or better or both at ordinary retailers in your community, the company's program doesn't make much sense, imho.

Oh, Amway is most definitely a pyramid scheme.

You don't see their products anywhere because they only sell them to themselves.

In many ways it's no different than many other network marketing type organizations; Avon, TupperWare, Mary Kay, Pampered Chef, Party Lite, etc.

The thing that makes Amway a pyramid (though, obviously, they deny that they are) is that most Amway reps don't sell to the general public - they don't host "parties" or "shows" in their homes, invite their friends, neighbors, co-workers over to buy the products.

In contrast, really the only people who use Amway products are Amway people. True, a Pampered Chef consultant has and uses Pampered Chef products in their home (trust me - my wife was a consultant for them for a year - and we have a TON of their stuff) - but their main focus is on having shows, getting people to host parties in their homes and sell the products for you. You don't see Amway people doing that.

Amway focuses almost exclusively on organization building - you want to get your "downline" - people that you sponsor into the business. As an Amway "rep" the only products you'll buy are the products you plan on using yourself. If you get a big enough organization beneath you, you might stockpile some products, and then resell them to your downline - but you don't mark them up or make a profit on them.

The other thing that the "upper level" people in Amway do is provide "training material" to their downlines - and that is almost 100% profit. They tape upper level Amway people speaking at meetings and rallies and then resell those tapes to their downlines for an enormous profit.

What's frequently gotten Amway into trouble in many states is the fact that they focus more on organization building than on actual retailing - and to not be considered a true pyramid organization, there needs to be a retail component to the organization (which - truly - there isn't).

if you try scam test sites - you will hear reliable news

Well, your problem is that Quixtar *isn't* a bad idea. Now some people certainly run their Quixtar businesses the wrong way, and that's a bad idea, but it's a different issue altogether. To your points though -

1. "Quixtar is just the supplier."
actually, it's against Quixtar rules to say this. Quixtar does more than just be the supplier. Note however that most of the "complaints" against the Quixtar model aren't about Q* it's about the way some folk run their Q* businesses - such as claiming Q* is "just the supplier"!

2. "every business is a pyramid"
By this he means "pyramid shaped", and he's pretty much correct. Pyramid schemes are a different thing altogether and neither Q* nor other legal businesses are Pyramid Schemes. A Pyramid Scheme is when you make money simply by getting people to join. You make nothing doing that in Q*, earnings are entirely based on how much sales volume you generate.

3. "if it was a bad idea, it wouldnt have lasted this long"
I think this is a fair enough comment. It's 50 years old next year, operating in 90+ countries and territories, and been endorsed by everything from business leaders to Presidents.

4. "amway is misunderstood"
sure is

5. "all the people who say this plan is bad ..."
Not entirely true. There's quite a few folk around who say it's bad who have bever been involved! Mostly what they've done is decide, incorrectly, that Q* is a pyramid scheme, and then talk, correctly, about all the bad things about pyramid schemes

6. "you buy this stuff anyway"
This is possibly true, possibly not. A/Q manufactures and markets high quality products, and as such they aren't the cheapest ones around. Some folk make the mistake of getting involved and spending too much money on products. If you're buying cheap cosmetics or nutritional products now, then moving to the A/Q range will probably cost you more. That doesn't mean they're not good value - they're some of the best in the world - but if you go overboard as some do, then it can cause you financial problems

7. "they dont charge to go to meetings"
this depends on the organization you associate with, normally some meetings cost and some don't. They are all of course optional.

When you say "most of the people that join do not do well" you have to realise that very very few people who join actually go on to do anything that would help them succeed. Indeed only half of folk who join ever even start ordering and trying the products. Neither they nor anyone else *expect* to make any money! Many folk also join simply to purchase the products at a cheaper price. Buy placing an order and getting their products, they have by all measures "succeeded". Your definition would have them "not doing well", which is a little unfair don't you think?

The Quixtar business is a legitmate business, and as such it takes a deal of time and effort to succeed, just like any business. Even if you don't want to do it, which is fine, it's not for everyone, why not be supportive of your friend in his attempts? He has made the decision to give it a go, your attitude is more likely to make him one of those who don't succeed than one who does, which is a shame.

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