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lovebugbasso | The landlord is responsible right? |
My friend rents a house in San Francisco, CA. Recently the entire kitchen cabinet unit fell out of the wall. All of their glasses, plates, ect broke, as well as a microwave and George Foreman grill that were on the countertop. He sells industrial supplies and knows by the screws and holes in the wall, that the unit was installed improperly. The landlord is saying he will come in and fix the issue of the cabinet coming out of the wall, but since they don't have renter's insurance he doesn't have to pay to replace everything that broke.
I was under the impression that renter's insurance covers thinks like natural disasters, or if your neighbor's apartment catches on fire and spreads to your apartment. This was just plain old negligence by the contractor that was hired by their landlord.
It seems to me that the landlord should be responsible to cover the losses that his tennents suffered due to a faulty cabinet...am I right, or is it on my friend and his roommates? |
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AlternaGay
 |
Very interesting question. If anyone would be responsible I would think it would be the contractor that installed the cabinetry. I'm not at all sure if there is any legal precedence for this. However, this is San Francisco and, thankfully, our judges tend to side with the Tenant more often than not. I would attempt to negotiate with the landlord and try to get them to cover the damages. Should that fail - and knowing San Francisco Landlords it probably will - take the issue up with the Housing Rights Committee and the Rent Board. Your friend may end up having to file a civil suit against the landlord and/or the contractor to recover the cost of replacing the damaged goods.
Housing Rights Committee
(415) 703-8644
427 S. Van Ness @ 16th
Open Mon-Thurs 1:00PM - 5:00PM
You may also want to contact an attorney. One of the best in the city is:
Kathy Mosvrucer
(415) 398-9880
1817 Market St
She gives free consultations & sometimes does pro-bono work on a case-by-case basis.
Hope this helps :-) |
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Musicality
|
.
I am no expert on California law, and it does differ from state to state, but if your friends don't have renter's insurance, then they are probably out of luck for their belongings. The landlord's insurance only covers his property, not the tenants' property.
In a case like this, it is easy to believe that the landlord should be responsible, since it was HIS cabinet that fell and broke all of the tenants' things. Unfortunately, it's just not the case.
They could always sue him and claim negligence. But the court costs are probably more than they lost in this incident. And his negligence would probably be hard to prove anyway. Most courts are sympathetic to tenants, but at best they would probably be awarded half the value of their things.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
. |
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Patrick
|
You answered your own question as you asked it. You stated that "This was just plain old negligence by the contractor that was hired by their landlord." Ultimately the contractor who installed the cabinets is responsible for their improper installation. the results of that improper installation (broken items) are their responsibility also.
It's situations like these that renters insurance (all insurance for that matter) were made for. The insurance companies would duke it out. while you were waiting for them to figure out who was responsible you would be buying new things because your renters insurance would just pay you and go after the contractor's insurance for reimbursement.
As to if the landlord is responsible, it could be iffy. many times landlords spell out exactly what they are responsible for in their leases. I know in my leases I have the following clause:
PROPERTY INSURANCE. Landlord and Tenant(s) shall each be responsible to maintain appropriate insurance for their respective interests in the Premises and property located on the Premises. It is recommended that Tenant(s) maintain Rental Insurance on the Premises. Landlord is not responsible for damage, theft or loss of Tenant(s)’s property.
I also go on further to explain:
Landlord shall keep the following in good repair: roof, exterior walls, foundation, sewer, plumbing, heating, wiring, driveways, and sidewalks, except when such repairs are necessitated by the misuse or negligence of Tenant
Now if the cabinet fell off the wall I would probably pay for the damaged items if the tenants were good tenants, even thought I was not legally responsible. If they were not good tenants I would just chalk it up to a simple "You should have had renter's insurance". |
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tokes
|
Actually, the company that installed the cabinets would be responsible, unless your friend actually overloaded the cabinet. You would be surprised how little it takes to overload cabinets. If you have really thick ceramic dishware, you should always be very careful about the weight. If you file a claim against anyone, they will be sending an investigator to check the situation. They will know if your friend overloaded the cabinet. I hope it was really the poor workmanship if they pursue this, or they'll get nothing. Good luck |
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linzlou83
|
Depending how obvious the neglectful installation was, it could be hard to prove and he's not liable for the damage to your friend's stuff unless the faulty installation is proved. Also, were the cabinets installed last week or 50 years ago? That makes a big difference legally as well. Lots of factors and probably not worth taking him to court.
Renter's insurance is the only way to guarantee protection of your stuff in these situations. |
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saberhilt
|
The land lord is not liable for your belongings.
Renters Insurance covers your belongings.
The Landlord is not on the hook to pay, nor will any court force him to do so.
If you're friend does not have Renters Insurance, then he'll have to absorb this loss. |
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beverlyhom
|
I know that your friend knows that the cabinets were installed improperly, but can he have a third party come in and verify, signing some document that proves it was installed incorrectly? Have your friend take pictures of everything, and take the landlord to small claims court. The landlord will then have to sue the contractor who installed the cabinets initially to recover any loss. |
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Heather B
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He should cover the things that broke....but he isnt legally bound to. Renter's insurance is good to have now a days. |
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Mike M.
 |
That's what renters insurance is for. He could try to sue the landlord, but it's probably not worth it. Unless he can prove that the cabinets did not meet a city code, or that the landlord did it to purposely damage his belongings he doesn't have much luck. There are many ways to hang a cabinet "properly", there are guidelines, but you would get different techniques from different installers, which could all be acceptable. |
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Chris B
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I can understand your wishing that were true, however, someone is going to have to sit down and read the lease thoroughly. Renters insurance covers damages to anything from anything as well as theft...it has little to do with natural disasters. If the damages are considerable, and there is nothing in the lease to outline this situation, I certainly would not hesitate to take the matter to small claims court. |
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smartypants909
 |
Renters insurance covers all of your personal belongings in a rented dwelling. Your friend may be out of luck. |
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PiNkY
|
If the landlord where a nice person, he would replace all that was lost. If not, you're friend may need the assistance of a lawyer to force him to pay for items destroyed by the negligence.
That's like if my refrigerator were to go out -- would my landlord replace all the food that spoiled? Maybe, but if he didn't I wouldn't sue him or anything. |
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AnOrdinaryGuy
|
I don't know California or San Francisco law. However, I hate to tell you that you're probably wrong. The landlord is liable only for his own negligence, meaning, only for defects of which he had knowledge in advance and failed to repair in a timely fashion. I doubt that the landlord could have known that the cabinets were not properly bolted to the walls. Unless he knew that he is not negligent and therefore not liable for property damage.
You could ask him who installed the cabinets.
This is why you need your own homeowner's or renter's insurance, to cover your personal property against accidental loss, whether caused by Act of God, or a non-negligent act of another person. |
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Quietman40
|
He is liable for the cabinet. He SHOULD be liable for their belongings, but, my bet is you'll have to take him to court to MAKE him do what he should do.
Renter's insurance would probably cover their damages and then end up suing the landlord to recoup the money anyway.
Peace. |
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Jordan P
|
If it isn't stated in the rental contract and neither party has insurance to cover this it'll have to be worked out between the two parties as far as who is going to pay how much. If this can't be done it'll end up going to court which would just be more of a problem for both parties. Of course you could be asking, is this a legal question? Or ethical one? I am guessing (but unsure) that the laws of the state and place where he lives does not cover this (unless it would be in the contract). Ethically I'd probably go 50/50 with a renter if this happened to me (depending on the cost of the items, how long the renter has been renting, and how good of a renter they have been). If they are a superior renter then I may cover everything. If they are trouble then they may be lucky just to be living there.
[Adding: Court and lawsuits are usually not a great idea in a situation of this size. All the time and effort put into one could be spent putting it into resolving this peacefully. Don't get the courts involved. It's not worth it. And lawyers (if they are involved are the only ones that would win in this case). Sure you can take anyone to court and sue them for about anything these days. That's why someone I know is being sued for stealing 2 tons of premium top soil and 5 cords of firewood (numbers are not actual but in that ballpark). The fact is he never stole anything (he used his tractor to help the neighbor clean up some brush and a pile of dirt in his yard, he didn't even remove it from the mans property) but the bad neighbor still sues anyway. He has also sued the entire neighborhood, the sheriffs department, the county, the mobile home manufacture, the man he bought his property from, and everyone else in sight. In the end he won't win and everyone will just have spent a ton of money on lawyers. And I'm not knocking lawyers... they just happen to be in the middle of a very lucrative situation. Just have him settle this out of court. No point in starting a major deal over a few hundred dollars worth of something and all the time and stress involved.] |
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ProfessorC
|
I think you are right and besides most renters insurance has a deductible. |
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VAgirl
|
That is on your friend. They need to have renters coverage for exactly this type of thing. They will have a hard time showing that the cabinet was not up correctly vs they put too much stuff in it. Sorry. |
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Erin J
|
Possibly. It may also depend on what conditions are stated in the rental agreement. If the cabinets were installed improperly or not tended to by the landlord (that's their responsibility, I believe) and this resulted in your friend's posessions getting damaged, than that should be the landlord's responsibility. A good friend of mine went through a similiar situation with some fire damage: his landlord tried to put all of the financial obligations on him in terms of repairs. The fire was not his fault. It was electrical- poor wiring.
Your friend might want to check the fine print on all paperwork pretaining to the house and maybe check with the courthouse and find out what their landlord must take care of and what's actually his responsibility. If there was any verbal agreement involved, though, things might get sticky.
Hope this helps. Good luck! |
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linda
|
This is a matter that must be settled between you and your insurer, and they, your insurer, should seek restitution from the contractor and or landlord |
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I_Love_McRedneck
 |
Morally, the landlord should pay, but legally that's what renter's insurance is for.
Your friend can always ASK or demand even, but I don't think they have a legal leg to stand on. sorry.
Sometimes accidents happen, that's why we insure ourselves. Just be thankful nobody got hurt. |
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Craig T
|
No, the landlord is NOT responsible unless you can establish without a doubt that it was installed improperly, that he KNEW it was installed improperly AND that the tenants did nothing that contributed to the failure. And of course, that would require your friend to sue the landlord in small claims court. Oh and when they LOSE (and they will) they will get to pay the landlord's legal costs.
Gotta love the people that hate honesty, likely the same people that assume all landlords are bad, crooked, greedy and anything that goes wrong MUST be because the landlord is cheap, lazy, etc (fill in the blank) |
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buffytou
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The landlord is responsible. Insurance doesn't change responsibility. Take him to court. |
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